The meeting we shall start this year, not in the order of breast cancer surgery,
but in the order of aesthetic breast surgery.
And as we are here in London, there is one person who has really changed the way that we
look at aesthetic breast surgery.
And actually really created more rejuvenation of the breast,
and this is my good friend Patrick Mellucci.
I think we all know Patrick, and he has really cornered how we should see aesthetics of the
breast for many years and um as this is his second hometown
kind of. Um, uh, it is really a great pleasure for me to
have him giving the keynote lecture on how his journey of,
um, rejuvenation of the breast.
Thank you very much for coming, Patrick.
Thank you. Thank you, er, Marlene.
um, I just put, oh, do we do this? Oh, great.
um. Yes, so the, the, well, first of all, I have to
say.
Almost got slightly offended uh by the invitation because er it's an acknowledgement
that I'm old. But uh, you know, it, it happens.
um and the, let's see if this works. OK.
Yeah, so, um, evolution of breast aesthetics or, or evolution of breast rejuvenation,
my personal journey.
Um, so I'm gonna tell you, I'm gonna tell you the story and the story is about the whole,
you know, what I've talked about a lot is this, is the,
the, the whole 45, 55 story, but I'm gonna just tell you about,
you know, how it came about and the beginnings and a few things that maybe,
um. You didn't know.
Um, and actually I was trying to, uh, I, I was actually Googling myself to find out when it
did happen, and, um, I didn't realise, but it, it, it actually goes back to 2007.
And so in 2007, uh, what happened?
At the Royal Society of Medicine, not far from here, um,
in London. Every month, once a month, um, there was a
teaching session for the residents.
And um Uh, the then president of the plastic surgery section rang me up and said,
I'd like you to give a talk about breast augmentation.
To the residents, I said fine, it's good.
Uh, send your title, and, uh, you know, we'll see you next week.
So, um, I sent the title and the title was, um, what can I talk to the residents about,
something nice and basic, I'm gonna talk to them about the ideal breast proportions,
that's when I talk to them about.
Yeah, it's been done in the face, it's been done in uh in the nose,
uh, etc. so so I'll do the body.
Now Being a rather last minute guy.
We get to the night before, still haven't done the talk.
And Pat's laughing, she knows why.
I'm done the talk, so I thought, OK, I better get onto my PubMed.
I'll do my literature search and I'll present the literature.
Go to the pub net. Lo and behold, there's nothing.
There's Pen's triangle, 21 centimetres, and there's nothing,
and I'm searching again, I'm searching, there's a few articles talking about proportion and
nice, and it has to be, you know, look good and but absolutely and I,
so I start panicking and I'm thinking crap, I've gotta talk tomorrow,
you know, what am I gonna do?
And The, the, so, so this is where I came up with the idea,
and I don't know where I came up with the idea, but I suddenly thought,
um, I'm gonna go to the Sun newspaper.
Because for those of you from the UK, you'll know that on page 3 of the Sun.
Uh, for about 50 years, every day is a topless woman.
And um The idea was that these women were selected because of the attractiveness of
their breasts, and the deal is that the breasts can't be operated on.
So these are women who've been chosen for nice breasts.
I thought, OK, let's let's have a look at these images and let's try and,
um, let's try and make something, uh, you know, see if I can spot something.
Is there anything that, and immediately I spotted, you know,
these, these four parameters, you know, pretty much immediately I said,
you know, one after the other.
And the, the, the full parameters which things that I've always talked about are this volume
distribution above and below the nipple.
And with that, where you get slightly more volume below the nipple,
you get an upward angulation.
You then have this lovely upper pole slope, this sweet upper pole slope,
and this beautiful lower curvature.
And you look at all of these images and this uh this this repeated itself.
So I thought, OK, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna talk about this,
I'm gonna put this together and I'll give a talk about it.
Uh, and so I did.
And, um, I gave the talk, um, got a little bit of a,
a bit of a hard time by by some colleagues, people weren't entirely,
um, etc. But I kind of liked the idea, I thought there
was something in it, and a week later.
There was a one-off uh press conference at the Royal College of Surgeons.
And I said to myself, I'm gonna give that talk again, because I kind of,
I like the idea. Um, and so I gave the talk,
and it was on a Saturday.
It was on a Saturday afternoon and it was, um, uh, September time.
And um we gave a talk, er the next day went home and I was with my kids
and um.
My phone went off. Yeah.
Answer the phone, unknown number.
Doctor Molich, I said, yeah.
So it's the Times newspaper here.
Um, I said, yeah, how can I help?
Um, yeah, we understand, uh, you've discovered the formula for the perfect breast.
And I was like, uh, OK, uh well, can you tell me all about it?
And I said, uh, well, yeah, OK, it's, you know, this, this and that,
and, OK, thank you very much, so I put the phone down.
And um The phone goes off again.
Um No sound.
Pick it up. Go, said, yes, um, it's the Daily Mail.
Uh, we understand you've, uh, discovered the formula of the perfect breast.
And I was like, OK, you know, uh, uh, can you tell me all about it,
so told them all about it.
And the bottom line is, and this is a Sunday afternoon, and I remember it as clear as day.
My phone did not stop ringing for about 5 hours, and I can tell
you I spoke to.
Media from every corner of the world, and it became, um,
it became a very overwhelming experience because, Every newspaper,
every magazine, um, every television channel were bombarding me with,
you know, wanting a, an interview, uh, wanting a story.
Um, uh, there was a, you know, a Belgian magazine wanted to do a feature on me and my
family, what I like, what I like eating.
Yeah, it's like, you know, this is the guy who's, you know,
um, the Sun newspaper gave me a a a a new chair actually and I'm a little bit upset that you
didn't introduce me as professor, Professor of boology because they uh they,
they, they, they, they coined this term that, you know,
the professor of bobology and.
And, and, and so I was getting and, and I, and I'll never forget,
driving on the way to work, I get a text from my brother.
And uh And and there's a big double page spread with a picture of me and it says Professor
of booology, er tells us all about the perfect breast and there's a lot of celebrities um that
that that I'm supposed to have judged, and I remember stopping the car.
It was round here in Regent's Park and thinking, God, I don't really know what to do,
you know, it was a little bit overwhelming.
And I remember ringing the office of the British Association.
Talking to the marketing people I said look, I don't know what to do,
you know, I'm just, I, I, I'm just being bombarded and I,
I, I can't really.
And it was a very, you know, very strange, very strange period,
but probably the highlight of this period.
And I remember in 2007 I'm still in the public sector, so I'm sitting there in a in a busy
clinic and outside the corridor of patients with leg ulcers and hand injuries,
waiting to come and see me and and my phone goes off.
I'm I'm in the clinic.
Doctor Mallucci? I said, yes, Doctor Luci,
you're you're live on on on Playboy Radio from Los Angeles.
And I'm like. Yeah, how can I help?
Well, uh, you know, um, you know, are you, you good to talk?
And I'm like, yeah, kind of, you know, um, how can I help?
He goes, well, um, you know, our listeners are doing a phone in and they want some question
and answers.
I'm like, OK, and you know, the, the nurses are banging on my door,
you know, saying, you know, there's patients outside, and I'm like,
yeah, but John Smith wants to know how big his wife's, you know,
and um. And, and one of the, one of the presenters,
she's actually going, that's why she, can I send you a picture of my boobies?
And this is the actual picture that she sent me, so I'm,
I'm live on the phone looking at the picture. She goes,
what do you think of my, yeah, they're they're pretty good,
yeah, they're they're they're not bad. Yeah.
And um so it it was, it was this, this, this, this crazy time and one of,
one of the things of course which is funny is, is obviously get a lot of stick for being uh.
In the media, and I, I love, I love this one, some article in some magazine somewhere,
taking the mickey out of me and my study, science, uh,
and it says, um, baffling, bafflingly, Meucci spent 3 months on this study.
That's looking at just one pair of tits a day on a process that would take a 15 year old boy
a few hours and a fistful of loot.
Which I thought was uh was, was, was quite amusing.
And then after that, I mean, you know, you had the papers used to ring me up and say,
look, we've we've graded these, you know, celebrities, what do you think?
And they're just adding these random numbers.
55, you know, and poor old uh Rihanna's got 35, 65s, and um,
you know, and, and, and just, I was, I was just getting hassled,
you know, time after time about all of this, so.
It was, it was, it was a crazy, I think the only one they probably got right was Amanda
Holden, where you actually can see some nipple, but um the rest was just completely random.
So, um, yeah, it was, it was, it was it was a very bizarre um uh
period which, you know, in many ways, um.
Changed my life, you know, it was changed the journey that that that that I took really and
um but it did get, you know, the the the more serious side is that it,
it did get me thinking that there was something in this whole concept
and. I always show this image here as, as uh I mean
it it's so perfect as a breast in its image.
um, you know, it, it transcends opinion, you know, there's nobody who can look at this and
think that's an ugly breast.
Um, you know, you might prefer other types, but you know,
it, it, it's, there's something about that which is so complete,
um, and so intuitive.
And, and so my sort of journey of, um, I, I suppose, you know,
analysis and trying to understand uh this, um, you know,
deepened it and, and understanding these four fundamental principles where you talk about
this volume distribution, nipple angulation, as I said,
the upper pole slope and the lower pole curve, being the um.
The the foundation stones for this naturally attractive breasts,
as I said, it's not to say that everybody wants that, but um,
these are the foundation stones for natural beauty.
And also the understanding that, you know, volume alone,
um, you know, does not equal beauty, you know, it's, it's just way too simplistic and it's
something that we'd all been painful to look at that, um.
And when you look at, you know, an image like this, you know,
beautiful body, beautiful breasts, um, you know, she goes bigger,
and then she goes bigger, and then you ask yourself, well,
you know, was she really better at the end than she was at the beginning?
I don't think she was, I think, you know, you know, she was more beautiful at the beginning
than she was at the end.
So, you know, as I said, this idea that that that volume alone is good enough,
this is volume. But it's ugly, we all recognise that's not a
nice looking breast, you know, and when you take or reduce the volume,
suddenly you recognise that as much more attractive, and we'll be able to explore why
that is. And of course it's not just volume,
it's volume distribution. You can't just have volume stuck anywhere,
cos this looks pretty strange as well, um, and doesn't really correspond to,
to, to, to anything that that we recognise as attractive.
So fast forward the 2000, and remember.
I came up with this idea in 2007, it was just a random idea on,
on, you know, late late at night before a talk, but I hadn't published it.
Um, so I thought, you know, better publish it before somebody else does.
Um, and so it wasn't until 2011 that, um, we finally published it.
We sent this article to PRS, they rejected it, um, and,
uh, uh, and, and, and I'll tell you a story about that after.
But uh uh but it was, it was finally published in uh in JPress in 2011.
Um, and again, it's just, you know, reiterating those four features that we talked about,
um, as being the fundamentals.
But part of, I, I think the, the fun part in trying to understand this better is looking at
deviation. You know, what happens when you deviate from,
from that norm.
So, and I, I think one of the powerful things about that very simplistic 4 parameter
template. Is it allows you to visualise and to um to
compare and to um make some decisions. So this lady,
she walks in, she goes, Doctor, I don't breast augmentation, but I don't like my breasts,
you know, I, I, I, I, I don't think they're attractive.
And you think, OK, you know, you think, well, let's let's apply a little template to that
breast. And actually you'll see that she kind of fails
in all four of those parameters.
There's too much upper pole, too little lower pole.
She has convexity of the upper pole, not that nice sweet pole.
The nipple points downwards, and there's no beautiful curvature.
And the more you deviate, the stranger or less attractive
the breast looks.
And you can see here, this lady, believe it or not, has had a breast augmentation and was also
very unhappy with her outcome.
Um and as I said, the more extreme you, you deviate away from those norms,
the more strange the breast looks.
And it doesn't matter in which direction you deviate, that's the bottom me out way too much
at the bottom, um, that angulation is all wrong, um, and it's,
it's unattractive.
So you then start to see, well, OK, you know, maybe, maybe,
maybe there is some value in this, um, you know, in this parameter.
And then I think it's also very interesting when you look at images like this,
let's look at it and there's something not quite right,
there's a a slight um.
Um, uneasiness when you look at that image, it doesn't, doesn't,
and then you look at this, and you immediately recognise that as,
oh, yeah, OK.
That's normal, I get that.
Um, and it's a bit like, you look at this car.
And you think, uh, nah, you know, probably not.
You look at this one, and again you feel a bit calmer.
Um, you know, and, and it's it's very instinctive, isn't it,
that, that appearance and. There are many things that we look at and we
recognise as stylish, attractive, and something the
way things are put together, the way they sit, that you recognise as being
beautiful, stylish, and really what the journey.
Um, uh, particularly in the breast, was to try and distil what those elements,
those subconscious elements are that we recognise as attractive,
and those subconscious elements are those four elements.
So, you know, you have your fiat on the left.
And the Ferrari on the, on the right of your screen, um,
you recognise it, it doesn't make sense.
And likewise, when you look at this image, it doesn't look right,
does it? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it gives
you discomfort.
You look at this image and suddenly you recognise normality.
And why do you write recognise normality? You recognise it because you've reversed that
volume. Disproportion.
The image on the left of your screen's got way too much in the upper pole,
not enough in the lower pole, and simply by reversing that volume,
you recognise this as more attractive because it comes much.
Closer to that original template we talked about, and if you trace around these two
breasts and superimpose them, you can see that the breast that you find attractive has less
volume in the upper pole, more in the lower pole, and with that the nipple comes upwards.
And again, you look at this.
And You then transfer it to that and you get immediate relief because of that
volume redistribution.
And this is why it becomes so important as, as I said,
a parameter by which you can make a judgement and decision about going forward.
Again, look at this, it's it's, it's clearly um uh not right unless
you recognise immediately.
As more normal, the way it should be, because you've slotted back into those volume
um distribution that we've talked about.
Um So it then comes back to, and I think there's another very interesting area,
it's, so why are we obsessed with the upper pole?
Why do we talk about the upper pole all the time?
Why are we being taught um about this as being so important?
And I think the really fundamental thing is um.
And so I talk a lot about the clothed breast and the naked breast.
And these are images from Instagram.
Um, it's taken literally, I don't know, a couple of months ago.
If you look at all of these images, they go completely against what I've just described.
Um, very full cleavages, um, celebrities endorsing them,
Taylor Swift, the Kardashians, um, so they're completely against what I said.
But I think a really fundamental thing is that when women come to see you at consultation,
they rarely think of themselves naked.
They think of themselves in the bikini.
In the particular top, in those images that we've just described.
Um, and I think it's very important to separate those two things,
because when you look at these two cleavages, they're almost identical to the two
cleavages that you see down here.
But when you expose those breasts, that's what you have underneath and.
I would defy anybody to find those attractive, um, and yet they are what
correspond to that clothed look.
So the two have to be separated, um.
And I think it's something which is easily overlooked in conversation because when a woman
comes into you, she will always ask you for upper pole fullness.
Here's a bikini model again.
She came, took a bikini off, that was underneath, extremely unhappy.
And I think this is an interesting um image, so um as I said,
when people, when women come to see you, they will always say,
Doc, I want upper pole performers.
And It's the ladies presenting her master effect and you say,
OK, well look, I think um I can give you this.
And they go, yep, that's exactly what I want.
It's exactly what I want. And when you go and look at this more carefully.
There's the upper pole. Before And there's the upper pole afterwards.
Almost no change, almost no change.
In fact, what's radically changed, not the upper pole,
it's the lower pole. And what's changed is the volume distribution
above and below the nipple. So, you know, here you've got this very strange
9 to 10, and afterwards you've basically re-gifted her,
oops, um.
That 45, 55 volume distribution.
So it's not just about upper pole fault, it's about the relationship between the upper and
the lower pole.
It's not just that.
Um, and again, breast reduction, highly disproportionate, when you reduce it,
really all you're doing is recreating that same template.
So, and I show these images to my patients when I.
Talk about the concept of trying to make their breasts look better,
and as soon as they see these images, they understand it,
it's very instinctive, it's not difficult to explain, and that's what's so fundamental,
so. Maybe when we're talking about breast
augmentation, we should be looking at preferentially expanding the lower pole.
Just like these images, in order to recreate that natural distribution,
and it doesn't matter what situation you find yourself in,
this is a, a young woman with er a mastia, um.
Really, the implant selection position should be around trying to recreate
um those uh proportions, those individuals, and I said,
it doesn't matter what sort of age, what, you know, whether you're young,
whether you're old, what you're trying to do is simply replicate um that volume distribution.
Um, above and below the nipple and all those other parameters,
uh, that go with it.
Nice breast to begin with, and all you're trying to do is to enhance,
um, what she has, uh, uh, beforehand.
Um, so, so it, it, it, it all starts to kind of fit in like a,
like, like, like a, like a jigsaw puzzle, um, when, when you start to put all those things
together, um.
Now, The interesting thing for me was then to say, look,
um. You know, it's not just my idea.
I didn't want it to be, or this is just my opinion, and you know,
and I'm opposing my opinion.
It it it it all made sense to me, um, it's all seemed very logical,
but what we really wanted to do is to see what everybody else thinks.
And so we created this population study.
Um And what the population study did was to go out to over
1400 people, half of them were men, half of them were women.
All of these groups, young, old, different social, different ethnic backgrounds.
And um what we did was we took different breasts and we morphed them
into different proportions.
And we simply asked people to just to score their favourite um.
Their favourite image. And Results of that study,
uh, basically overwhelmingly in all categories, um, show that
4555 as the preferred proportion amongst the population.
And when you look at, um, you break down those groups, men versus women,
it's exactly the same, and actually interestingly.
This difference between men and women is statistically significant,
so the men actually preferred that 45, 50 5 slightly more than women,
which is something which perhaps we're brought up thinking would not be the case.
Um, and likewise we looked at, um, plastic surgeons.
Interestingly, um, about 94% of plastic surgeons selected that as their preferred
um option. But you wonder how, how many actually put that
into practise in terms of with their patients.
Ethnicity, oh, it's a western breast.
Only in the west do we like those breasts.
Again, not backed up by this study, so we looked at lots of different ethnicities,
um, and again, 45, 55. We looked at women,
younger, older, different age groups, again, doesn't make any difference.
Um, we looked at social class and again makes very little difference.
So there's no doubt that um.
There's something universally appealing about this um proportion.
What conclusions uh can you come? Well, in our study,
86% of the population chose that as their favourite outcome.
Obviously some preferred the fuller look.
Um, as I said, the notion that men and women see something different has not been upheld.
Cultural variation, we didn't see very much, and I'm gonna touch on that in a minute.
Um, and so I talk about these slightly wrong assumptions that,
and again I think it also is related to the clothes and the dress look,
is that a patient comes in, um, thinking she wants round footballs.
The surgeon thinks she wants round footballs, but neither of them really like them,
um, until they deep dive.
Um, and as I said, I think this is behind a lot of that.
So. The way in my practise is rather than being
obsessed with the upper pole, my focus has always been on beautification of the lower pole,
and it doesn't matter whether you're lifting, reducing, adding,
um the principle is always the same.
And if you think about it, um.
You know, what, what, what does this define, it defines the naturally beauty of birth untouched
by the forces of nature such as agency, pregnancy, weight fluctuation.
This form represents a perfect dome under the slight influence of gravity.
You can see it falls a little bit, and with that you get a bit more below the nipple,
the nipple comes upwards and all the other features come into play.
I put into Google, I just put, I think I just put beautiful breasts into Google or attractive
breast or something, and these are the images it throws out.
And if you look at these images, they are exactly in line with what we've said.
Now, Interestingly, before I play you this, um.
I always get a lot of um, oh yeah, you know, uh, you know,
thanks, thanks for the population study, um, but yeah,
in. In our country it's different, um, or in South
America, we want different stuff or, you know, my practise is,
is different. And um So, uh, we're we're just gonna listen to
this because Rod Rorick, um, he, he, you know, read the study with interest.
I think he was like, you know, yeah, I'm not sure about Texas,
uh, but I'm not sure it's gonna work in Texas, that one.
Um, but let's give it a go. So I'm just going to play you this,
um, I might speed it up a bit. Can we have the sound?
Oh, sorry, peer reviewed article on PRS mimicking the experiment performed in this
paper, we took to social media with a pole and put some plastic surgery resins and others in
front of the camera. We wanted you to see how their opinions stacked
up against the 1300 respondents in this peer reviewed study.
Showing some of the same images that the author has presented,
we asked a small focus group which image shows the ideal breast.
Here's what they had to say.
Um, looking at the four pictures, uh, for me, I think the top left,
the 4555, uh, picture is probably the most aesthetically appealing.
I would be inclined to select this.
Upper left image My Location
OK, 50.50, the second picture, uh, 4555.
I think 45, 55.
Is the ideal. I believe that the image in the top right
corner is closest to the ideal brush shape.
upper left hand corner, 4555. 4555.
So the breast. So you have a. See.
Um, it's not. The well. feels.
OK Hold on one second.
Let me just go back and I'll show you the end of that.
Uh, let's just do that again.
I'll just run through the end.
Scroll through to the end we're gonna aim to find the perfect firm and it looks like.
Oh, why not?
Today we're going to aim to find Today we're going to aim to find the perfect
breast in a peer reviewed article in PRS mimicking the Against the
1300 respondents in this peer reviewed study, can you speed it up to the end some of the same
images that the author has presented, we asked a small focus group.
Sorry. I just wanted to get to the end because it it
it it summarised it nicely.
Today we're gonna aim to find the perfect breast.
Yeah, yeah, it's going, it's going, it's good, it's good,
good, good, good, good. OK.
So that's that cancer These anecdotal results compiled or coupled with our informal
online poll are in line with the results in this month's study.
Is there such a thing as a perfect breast?
Tell us what you think by leaving a comment here and joining the study by taking our quick
poll on PRSjournal.com.
An overwhelming majority of people, regardless of ethnic backgrounds,
genders, and age groups, and regardless of medical background,
selected the same ideal breast or the perfect breast, if there is such a thing.
The key feature that unified everyone's preference was nipple positioning,
a 45 to 55 ratio. Placing the nipple just above the centre seems
to be preferred and that which actually shows a little bit of in memory fold.
Stay tuned as we continue to.
So what was interesting is that, there you go, he's done his texting study with his user and
pretty much found the same thing.
Um, I think we found 86%, I think his Rod's study was closer to 72 or 73%.
There's a Brazilian group that have taken the same engineers,
done the same with their, um, very large population, and again,
they wrote the group wrote to me and said, would you like to be involved,
because we believe the results will be very different, and again,
they're actually very similar, um, and that's about to be published soon,
so. As I said, an important kind of verification of
the principle um of uh uh of, of what we just sort of put together.
I'm not gonna go into details now. Um, the Ice Principle was really the third of
this trilogy, and it's it's, it's, it's, it's I guess, it's a putting principle into practise.
It's understanding that you have a principle and it's understanding how to arrive from A to
B, trying to recreate that redistribution, it's something that I've talked about a lot and I
don't want to go into, um, you know, great depth, but it's been a useful tool.
To, to, to try and provide a map uh for those who are trying to recreate uh those proportions.
And of course, um, particularly in difficult secondary cases,
it's become a template by which I think um it's extremely useful when you look at,
you know, a difficult case, you think, oh, how am I gonna put this right?
You know, with this little thing in the back of your ear,
you can say, OK, well I know I need to redistribute volume,
I need to maybe change the nature of the. Prosthesis, I need to get the nipples up and
create something much more similar. So you can use it to lean on,
and again, even in extremely complex situations, multiply operated surgeries,
you can start to rational, you know, I need to distribute that volume better,
I need to get the nipples up. I need to select my implants a bit better,
maybe I need to lift. But again, you've always got that little spine
in the back of your head as your guideline.
So that's basically, you know, my journey, um, you know,
what, what, what does the future hold? The future holds many things,
um, you know, the whole advent of stem cells and fat and combining that with genetics is
gonna be very important.
The role of industry, um, again in industry development, and I just wanna,
I do want to mention for the young people.
Um, is our relationship with industry as surgeons, because it is a
slightly contentious relationship.
It's a necessary relationship because we need industry and industry need us.
But I think that when your relationship with industry potentially
takes preference over your relationship with your patients,
then I think you've got to be very careful.
I think it's very true that when we look at implants, there is no perfect device.
There is no one implant which can solve every problem.
And I think we have to be open minded in our selection.
You have to be loyal to your patients, not to industry, in order to get the right outcome.
So as young people listening to us on the podium, we all have associations,
you know, you must ask questions, you must be inquisitive about that relationship.
But more importantly, my other journey, my other passions,
my real passions are football.
My children And a pizza.
Thank you very much.
Well, I think there's no doubt he has cornered the topic of
rejuvenation of the breast in the aesthetic world, and um I think we really can thank
Patrick for his contributions and thank you very much,
Patrick, for giving this introductory lecture.
And as he mentioned at the end, yes, the relationship with the industry is a critical
one, is an important one.
We have to embrace, but we also have to learn. We have to work with them.
And I think one thing which is key to any conference is without the industry,
we cannot host any meeting.
So, um, we want from the organising team, we want really to thank the industry that they are
supporting us every year.
And um I urge you as well, go and see what they have for new things,
new toys, and that they are part of the innovation journey and um we always are happy
to have them here.